The V

"If every issue goes back into reprints after a substanial overprint then I don't think it's unreasonable to be frustrated by retailers being unable or unwilling to order at the levels they need. That's not a matter of the book's sales declining and the retailers ordering less - it's not ordering enough when they should know better.

And Image does indeed overprint pretty substanially. For example, the overprint on Luther Strode was something like thirty percent. And if we didn't sell out? Well, I have to pay for that shit. But if you're a retailer and can't get your orders within 30% on a book like Saga (not my book, mind, where ordering uncertainty is not unreasonable), you are doing it wrong. And since the books are not growing by the overprint each month, it means they are being continually under ordered."

When the sellouts happen isn't irrelevent. If books are selling out continuously before release, yeah, there's a problem, but there's only so much space inbetween an issue coming out and the FOC on the next one.

And not irrelevently, the most recent sales charts had Saga #6 go up in sales vs. #5, and Walking Dead has started to see sales increseas at the beginning of what'll be the TPB.

"Plus, I'm not keen on the tone. Image has a point, but being antagonistic about it is not the way to go to address it."

Ding! There was no need for them to be so antagonistic.

My problem, as a retailer, is I don't believe most of the books have an overprint. My orders for Saga have been extremely high, at this point I order as many of it as I do Justice League and other top selling books. But for number 7 about 1/5 of my copies were damaged. Did I get replacement copies? Nope, of course not. This happens with Walking Dead and others. Customers ended up having to buy the damaged copies b/c there was nothing else available. That is not good for my reputation. So when I hear there is an overprint, i look a little sideways.

"When the sellouts happen isn't irrelevent. If books are selling out continuously before release, yeah, there's a problem, but there's only so much space inbetween an issue coming out and the FOC on the next one."

It's one thing to not know how much a book will sell on release. But Saga has sold out, literally, every issue. Chew often does, Walking Dead used to. It's why I mention the overprint. If the book is increasing by twenty or thirty percent each month, than yeah, nobody can be expected to keep up with that.

But Saga, for instance, isn't. The leap between six and seven was substanial, around 6,000 copies, but that still represents a fifteen percent leap. Less than the overprint, I'm reasonably sure. And for it to sell out month after month, that indicates it is consistently being underordered, for whatever reason.

Before the leap, the reported numbers for Saga were within a thousand copies for 4,5,6. It was stable. What's happening with Saga doesn't look to be retailers unable to keep up with growth - it's retailers being unable to keep up with their existing sales. Which is....what it is. I'm not sure why that would happen.

Again, though, I reallllllly don't like the tone of that email. It might not hurt my book, but I'm about positive it didn't help.

I can't say for certain - I don't know BKV well enough to ask. But I know for sure my book was overprinted in the neighborhood of 30% for the first issue, and I don't have any reason to doubt when they say they are overprinting that they are. I need to check my records for the first Luther Strode series for exact numbers, but I know the overprints were pretty sizable there, too. Twenty percent and up.

And I should mention again, I don't think ordering uncertainty is unreasonable for my book. Our orders were up something like fifty percent over the first issue of the last series, and orders for the second issue, while they dropped, were in the same proportion.

So if my thing sells out, that's completely reasonable, because retailers are already ordering heavier on the book than sales history would dictate. Issue two of the last series was, for instance, the lowest selling issue, so we had a weird (for comics) sales trajectory.

Likewise, I suspect complaining about the drop between  seven and eight of Saga is probably not reasonable, precisely BECAUSE there was a big leap forward in numbers. It's not unreasonable to expect retailers to pull back a bit after increasing orders there.

One thing I've seen a few people ask; does it really cost that much to go back for more printings? And on top of that...are there that many people without pull lists walking in for copies where they are willing to wait while copies are reordered?

I know if I go into a shop and singles are missing then I automatically wait for the trade.

I've a hard time believing that so many shops are so bad at ordering or judging demand. I mean, perhaps on the second issue, but on the seventh? And I recall other issues of SAGA went back for more printings...if it's happening every month, then there's something going on that shop owners should pay attention to.

However, I don't know what the intent of the tone was, perhaps she was trying to be playful, but it really comes off as quite horrible PR for Image to have that tone in an email to retailers.

Right, must stop being on th internet at 3am.

I'm pretty sure it had a created by box in the credits, however I'm sure if they also had partial ownership.

Cheers,

Mark

True, and I presume cancelling a title is a bit different to being fired where someone else is writing it the next month.

Cheers,

Mark

It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to do a larger initial print run than it is to go back several times for reprints, due to economies of scale.

Since Image pays for printing costs out of the creator's cut, do you guys foot the bill for 2nd printings? Or does it not work that way?

Yup. I mean, not upfront, but that's stuff we pay for.

For a creator, the biggest issue is what Jamie mentions above: it costs more per issue to print those second printings. Which can make a pretty substanial difference to the creator in terms of money.

Yes, there seems to be a lot of new comic readers who are willing to wait for reorders of issues of a new series if they are available from Diamond and will show up in a couple of weeks, regardless of printing.

I work at a store, and if I am unable to reorder issues from Diamond for a series I've waited out on to see what reviews are like and, I too wait for a trade.  The only other option is to track down the odd issues you can't get at other stores (who are in the exact same situation unless they have shelf copies remaining), or the internet with ridiculous shipping.  If Image stops doing 2nd printings (which I think has only added to the success of their titles such as SAGA, which I don't think would be selling near as well if Image hadn't made the first six issues of the series so easy to restock and sell to people coming in for it), they will be driving people strictly toward trades (and/or feeding the speculation market).

With the SAGA thing...I know at our store we can barely keep up with the demand of the trade, and we overordered #7 and I think we're almost out as people buying the first trade are wanting to read the book monthly now.  Looking back at release dates, SAGA Vol. 1 came out on Oct.10.  FOC for SAGA #7 was Oct 22...and it was released on Nov 14th.  This is one book.  At this same time, retailers were very likely paying closer attention to Marvel NOW, which is multiple books, and people probably had a lot of money invested in the future of that line as far as hitting those FOCs and to see how much stock should be carried going forward.  At our store, we just got lucky and have been able to keep up with the current SAGA demand, but we're really glad and happy that Image kept SAGA #1-6 going with reprints, as we figured out our level, and everyone will be making money in the future.  We also wound up getting a big boost on it as Fiona Staples is from Calgary (just two hours from here), and was giving away free copies of the first two issues.  We wound up having several people start collecting the comic with #3, and we were able to keep up on that.  All because of 2nd prints.

The tone of that letter is really antagonistic and patronizing, but it seems to reflect a boiling frustration within Image wanting to be more respected by retailers than they are right now that I picked up on at the Diamond Retailer Summit in Chicago earlier this year.  Seriously, some retailers are really just fucking dumb and want all the benefit without any risk.  One guy asked one of the guys on the Image panel if there was any way for Image to tell retailers what is going to be "hot" before it comes out.  Because, you know, if you could predict the future, you'd be working in comics.  Oh, and another guy was asking IDW about the Walking Dead tv show.  On several occasions, someone on a panel had to clarify that by doing what retailers were asking this would fall under "price fixing".

"Seriously, some retailers are really just fucking dumb and want all the benefit without any risk."

And ultimately, that's the problem. It's not the retailers reading here who are doing it wrong, it's a huge mass of idiotic retailers who are dragging everyone else down.

"The tone of that letter is really antagonistic and patronizing, but it seems to reflect a boiling frustration within Image wanting to be more respected by retailers than they are right now that I picked up on at the Diamond Retailer Summit in Chicago earlier this year"

I didn't know that retailers where despecting Image (or at least not giving them their proper due)

"Seriously, some retailers are really just fucking dumb and want all the benefit without any risk. One guy asked one of the guys on the Image panel if there was any way for Image to tell retailers what is going to be "hot" before it comes out."

So that's why sometimes in solicitation you'll see them saying a book will be hot.  I figured it was just hype but it sounds like it could be a working sales techique for many retailers.

And for those on the V creating comics,  if you can't think of a title for your next comic just call it "This Is Hot" or "This comic is Hot" and watch sales go threw the roof.

So as someone who works at a comic shop with the news that they aren't going to do reprints mean you are going to increase your orders for image comics or will you keep ordering at the same levels you normally would?

The more I learn about it, the more sense the move makes, especially if you're going back to print and having to do a 5k print run to satisfy 1K worth of orders.

It's the same tone the email's author used when working at SLG, which I could never tell if it was playfully antagonistic or just antagonistic while trying to sound playful, if that distinction makes sense. It probably sounds fine in a bar, but less fine coming as part of a company's PR.

We'll be ordering as we normally would at the end of the day, but I don't think we are really the retailers the letter is addressed to, as we are ordering with some risk.  If, for some reason, we don't order enough of a new Image series, and Image no longer supplies us with more product to meet the demand...well, there's always trades we can stock down the road, or we lose the sale to the drive toward digital (which is miniscule now, but will grow with moves like this).

Here's some other retailer perspectives/concerns about the nature of the letter which I don't think are totally off the mark either.  Of course, the retailers that are reporting here are probably, again, NOT the retailers who need to be reading this (and are likely not), whose ordering habits aren't likely to change either.  Hibbs' comments in particular are spot on as to why a book like SAGA #7 needs to be made available (to fully capitalize on the huge sales of the first collection).  Even with the loss of profit in reprinting a small run of an issue, everyone should still be making money when something is selling like a SAGA.

The problem I have with the letter - besides the tone, yeesh - is that it punishes the good stores for the actions of the bad (of which there are many). I mean, look, I ordered a shit-ton of Saga #7, because I ordered (and sold) a shit-ton of the trades. I CANNOT find the ceiling on this book. It keeps selling... which is AWESOME for everyone. But Image just capped my Saga #'s at whatever I ordered of #7. I can't get anymore (unless I trade with other stores or whatever), so now when I sell the trade, once those 8 copies of #7 are gone, I'm going to have to say "Come back in 6 months for the trade"? WTF.

The book is really, really good. Why cap the sales? Saga = $$$.

And really, Image should know by now, this is how the Direct Market works. I wish it worked differently sometimes, but this is as good as it's been in a while. Saga's done really, really well, Walking Dead is still picking up sales, this has to be the best Image has done in -years-. This is shooting themselves in the foot.

An open letter saying "Hey, we don't think you're ordering enough, we ask you to take a good look at your Saga #'s" Would've gone a long way towards increasing orders, without creating retailer ill-will.

Normally by this time, "hot" Image books have cooled off, or shipped late, or lost customers, or whatever. Saga is the exception, not the rule, hence the 4-5-6 sales staying stable.

It seems strange that they're using Saga as the barometer/example. It's the wrong book to use.

<And ultimately, that's the problem. It's not the retailers reading here who are doing it wrong, it's a huge mass of idiotic retailers who are dragging everyone else down.>

There are so many that it can be depressing. This really feels like a punish-the-good, for the actions-of-the-bad.

I didn't think you where one of the retailers that Image is talking about but I was wondering if this news would have made you increase your orders just encase you need to sell a few more issues.

Basically, Diamond is a terribly shitty distribution platform, because 99% of the stuff it ships is unreturnable (this is the antithesis of the book publishing industry, which would completely collapse and die if it tried to work on a no-returns basis.)

Consequently, retailers have to get it right within about a 1-2 issue quantity when they're ordering (leaving aside the hell that is trying to order from Diamond's catalogue, which is bordering on the medieval.) Additionally, retailers are required to order sight unseen (in the case of issues 1-2 of anything published monthly), two months in advance of publication (assuming publication happens, and it doesn't always.)

As a consequence of that, a lot of retailers can't be fucking bothered/are understandably risk-averse in a low-margin industry and will only stock the guaranteed bums-on-seats stuff from Marvel and DC (which is why M & DC publish so much -- it is a deliberate gameplan to literally push the competition off shelves.)

I should point out that I have enormous sympathy for not-Marvel or DC publishers, and most retailers too (apart from that one douche at Larry's Comics), and very very very little for Diamond as a corporate entity (part-owned by DC, fact fans), although I've met and respect people who work for Diamond.

The system as it stands (and as it has stood for years) is fucked and there probably isn't a realistic way to fix it, because of the difficulties of moving print around internationally, lead times, serial publication, etc etc etc.

Talking with several people in private it seems (and those in the know can correct me if I'm wrong or have been given incorrect info) that they have to do reprints of at least 5K copies, and they're going back to reprint too many times to meet orders of...say 1K.

So they're stuck sitting on 4K copies. Not to mention the fact that it's VERY expensive to go back to print.

They could, and should, have made their case a lot better, but the more I learn the more on side with Image I am about it.

One of the other things I've heard is that the lateness of when the companies push the press on books sometimes hurt the retailers, as they'll suddenly be told of a "hot" book after the window for ordering is closed.

And the before mentioned facet of starting up a new print-run requires a minimum order that may be much more than is required to fulfill outstanding orders.

Add in the risk adverse retailers, who have EVERY REASON to be risk adverse, and it just sounds like a real mess.

The local I use now I quite like because it's simple, but they keep up a nice deep stock of trades with solid amounts of new comics, and they are very serious about getting to know their customer base so they can try to judge what to order.

Because they know I like crime comics, the first thing they do is point out new crime trades, and they're very good at selling without being pushy. So I've discovered some new stuff and they make sales.

As soon as I walked in today they asked me if I had read all the Brian Wood Couriers stories, and since I'd missed two of them, they immediately pointed out the new complete edition and it was an insta-sale for them.

There's so many facets that I don't envy any of the sides in this, and I feel bad for publishers and retailers because the systems seems fucked for the reasons you cited.

Well, they've also done sort of a piss poor job getting across that this only applies to certain books - Luther Strode is absolutely getting a second printing.

Which is another reason I'm a bit annoyed over the whole thing.

Saga is getting reprinted: http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/12/image-changes-course-on-second-printings-we-listen-to-you/

I think creators and/or publishers have to pay to stock extras at Diamond's warehouse, but I might be wrong there, and that might be publisher-specific.

Oh, and yeah, Larry's a winner.

Yeah, and they have to pay to warehouse them, which I just said to DS, and meant to say to you.

Damn sickness. blech.